How can we be successful/popular?

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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by Gannondorf1000 » 30 May 2013, 07:55

Even though I would be sad to see my tree that has withstanded the test of time go, and my hidden resources go, I agree with rygy. We need a wipe, I haven't been on because I have been bored. Bored to the point that when I come on I just talk. I need something to do, we need something to do. I feel it tis time for the great empires of our land to fall and make way for new ones, new empires and nations on a new land free of the elements of the past. I have been here for two years, I have seen Future Shift frozen in time, I have seen the land of Terra frozen in time, and I have seen the gates of PvP close. I have even seen staff retire and hired and retired again. I really feel it is time.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by disarmedfetus » 30 May 2013, 20:19

@motormaniac
as in factions. you cant steal unless you declare war on that faction and you cant grief in claimed territory. and you could clean up the plugins so you don't have so many random ones and the server would update a lot faster. i personally prefer vanilla minecraft.
also don't baby the players as much. (as in building giant spawn buildings and rail systems.) keep it simple. as in
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by motormaniac » 30 May 2013, 22:59

And with that we would have to add maaaany plugins, and probably program plugins ourselves just to fix exploits and other things. I'm just saying the obvious things, and in the end it isn't my choice to make.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by RobipodSupreme » 31 May 2013, 04:41

I haven't had much experience with PvP servers, but went on a couple yesterday.

It was horrible.

I may have picked some particularly bad ones, but it was very demoralising to be griefed and killed without any let up. While having the option for PvP, along the lines of the old PvP only world, I don't think, even with factions, the main server should have it.


(this may have been resolved ages ago, but hadn't really been able to give much of an opinion before.)
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by sgtwisky » 04 Jul 2013, 18:44

figured id chime in with my 2 cents. While playing on the new 1.6 temp server I noticed a few things. The first was that I was motivated much, MUCH, more than I have been in a long time. This was not due to the new horses and shiny objects that came with 1.6 but rather having a largely untouched world and starting from scratch. there was excitement and stress (especially with crashes) mixed together as I tried to scratch out a place to live. I also noticed I was working with and interacting with people more than I would have before. both because it was needed and those of us that have been on the server have formed somewhat of a community in game (though we have known each other before).

Here is what I think I have learned from this experence.

1. Minecraft survival is not fun once you've got enough stuff to turn it into creative.

2. "Need" is the best thing to get players to work together and form bonds.

3. Competition for local resources like wood or iron change the value of basic materials greatly.

4. Creepers are a pain in the ass. BUT make life more interesting.

My opinion is this. A wipe would fix all of this at least at first. I think the root of the issue of the first 3 is finding a way to get players to "use" all that junk they have sitting in their chests. to an extent PvP would do this but I doubt that it would work in the current form or what we have had before. I like factions on paper but I don't think that is exactly what we need. and everyone wants to mess up the other guys stuff at some point. how to balance that while being the following I have no idea:
*survival oriented
*new player friendly
*not load mods with tons of work
*not break the game
I think some form of group competition between towns and groups could be very good thing as it would use up items and sorceress regardless of being PvP oriented competition or not. Basically I think minecraft needs some kind of group related activity(s) in late game to ether A. get players to use/lose items. and B. challenge players in some way shape or form that can engage and excite players. no idea as to what that might be other than some kind of town based pvp. if anyone has Ideas for non pvp activities that would be great as my brain is just not working in this 110 degree heat im in.
(EDIT during posting: maybe big builds with your survival inventory? or survival build contests)

as for #4 I have learned that though it is annoying to get your front door blown off, at the same time it adds to the overall experience, the same goes for the lack of a death chest. Boy I do like being able to get my stuff... but it also means that death is only a momentary setback, and has little to no impact on how I play. I think this mitigates death to the status of annoying instead of a feature. I think the environment and its effect has been taken for granted. many of the things we see as "set backs" or "Danger" that we use plugins to minimize or in late game just don't need to care about are what makes the world interesting. its only in overcoming adversity that will bring out the best in people. And only in needing the help of others to do so will our community thrive in game. If I don't need your help to build my 250x250 block massive castle why would I bother working with you? If I you don't need to borrow that nether portal I build or a spare ingot of iron why would you bother asking me for help? the only other reason is to save time. and at that poin in the game I think it has become grinding for the sake of grind.

SO what do I think would help us become more popular?

1. take some of our perks and plugins that make things too easy and throw em out the window. they are nice they are convenient, but ultimately I think they lead to isolation. (death chests, travel is Too easy or inversely too hard, creepers and mobs pose little to no threat in latter game especially with creeper protection on.)

2. some way of competing and using what you have amassed in pvp, big builds or some other form of late game that stays interesting and keeps players coming back(I know vague but its the best I can do right now)

I think by doing these 2 things which make the game harder(risk vs reward) and give you something to do with all that extra stuff you have we would greatly benefit, and cause players to stay for longer and have a reason to keep playing long after a wipe or new world opening up. though im not sure if it would attract people or not

/End Rant
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by powerfulkingt » 05 Jul 2013, 15:36

sgtwisky wrote:quote
I couldn't agree more :lol:
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by random980 » 06 Jul 2013, 01:24

I third that!

Death chest's make death kind of redundant.
Another feature i think should be removed is creeper protection in cuboids. It stops creepers being a threat, as sgtwisky pointed out.
Cuboids themselves shouldn't be free/public to use, they should have remained as an expensive commodity as they worked as a great material sink and provided motivation to mine as you worked towards one. All cuboids pretty much act as a 'safe zone.' and once you have that you have no need to travel out of that area and put yourself at any risk.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by sgtwisky » 06 Jul 2013, 02:37

OH id like to add that with creeper protection I think allowing public buildings like spawn towns and such or any public roads would be fine. we wouldn't want our hub to crumble into dust or have to be reset every night. I am not against spots that are safe like the spawn town or possibly the new player plots as a lot of our new players seem to be new to minecraft and getting blown up right away could chase them away from not only the server but the game as well.

Another thought I had is that towns have little point once you finish most of the main features of it. Maybe if we added some kind of challenge for town owners say the possibility for town events? or maybe hold some events in towns? for example town A could have pay (cash or a lot of dia or something) to host special events for their town members and or guests that come by during the event. say like a survival game where your bombarded by mob for a time limit and if you defend your town those who participate win something? anything really... as long as they can boast of it latter. a statue that works kinda like the hospital (not in effect just that its placed by staff) or everyone wins some nice armor or random stuff. it would be staff intensive though as im imagining this being done without bothering with plugins. I don't know if something like this is practical or doable at all for that matter but the idea of cities being able to host server wide events or just city resident events that you could not otherwise have and that use up all your goodies so that your town has to work together as a team would be fun and help the longevity of a world.

lol I like this thread... I can throw out random ideas that come from my inner game critic who complains to me when something is not right and even tells me how he would do it.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by random980 » 07 Jul 2013, 07:17

I like your towns idea sgtwisky but it's something town owners themselves should try to do, not mods/server staff.
On a new/wiped server i plan to make a large town and invest in it to keep the town active and appealing.

As far as survival goes, i do think over the years we (the server) have added to many mechanics to help us play the game, we should go back to basic survival mode and scrap most of the plugins that make gameplay and survival easier(hospitals, CUT restaurants, death chest, city cuboids, ect) At this point i think i'm just repeating myself, what do others have to say about scrapping certain plugins?
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by Tulonsae » 07 Jul 2013, 14:09

random980 wrote:I third that!

Death chest's make death kind of redundant.
Another feature i think should be removed is creeper protection in cuboids. It stops creepers being a threat, as sgtwisky pointed out.
Cuboids themselves shouldn't be free/public to use, they should have remained as an expensive commodity as they worked as a great material sink and provided motivation to mine as you worked towards one. All cuboids pretty much act as a 'safe zone.' and once you have that you have no need to travel out of that area and put yourself at any risk.
The reason we allowed death chests for anyone is because when the chunk unloads all items are despawned. This is for server performance. I would think you'd like a chance to get back to your items after death and pick them up...

Cuboids should be free to use. Because.... it eliminates a lot of player disputes and allows our staff to focus on other things like playing or running events or .... It also eliminates most griefing. I don't know about you, but I don't like my home being griefed. And I mined all the time - unfortunately, it was not until after I was an admin that I realized that the area beneath and around my home had already been nearly picked clean of diamonds by an x-rayer. So having few diamonds made it take a lot longer to buy a cuboid. Plus, for new folks, one major grief before managing to accumulate enough diamonds is enough to make some folks leave permanently.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by Tulonsae » 07 Jul 2013, 14:12

random980 wrote:I like your towns idea sgtwisky but it's something town owners themselves should try to do, not mods/server staff.
On a new/wiped server i plan to make a large town and invest in it to keep the town active and appealing.

As far as survival goes, i do think over the years we (the server) have added to many mechanics to help us play the game, we should go back to basic survival mode and scrap most of the plugins that make gameplay and survival easier(hospitals, CUT restaurants, death chest, city cuboids, ect) At this point i think i'm just repeating myself, what do others have to say about scrapping certain plugins?
There are very few events that do not require more plugins in order to operate them. So, having less plugins means that the idea of town events would not happen.

The problem I have with not having cuboids or claims is griefing.... I see no other way to solve the griefing problem.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by sgtwisky » 07 Jul 2013, 15:20

Tulonsae wrote: The problem I have with not having cuboids or claims is griefing.... I see no other way to solve the griefing problem.
I don't think we want to do away with cuboids Tulonsae. its just to turn creeper explosions on and leave it there. letting anyone build in anyone else's land or tear stuff down is deff a bad idea. as for the town events I agree that it would be nice to do it mostly with the tools we have and not use mods. I didn't think so much as plugins with my "town survival" idea more like a mod or 2 would throw spawn eggs to make zombies and stuff that would attack the towns people. AND by the end of the night anyone that was fighting and survived would win something or maybe the town would get some trinket like the statue idea that showed they won an event. I do not want to add plugins for event stuff just want to get creative with the tools we already have. that being said next time I try to make a town I think I shall attempt to make my own town and or multi town events, with any other towns that would like to be part of it. I wish I had thought of this when I started HammerVale in borjan... might have gotten more members and kept more of them active.

Anyway moving away from the town event idea. I think as a whole not just as staff we need to get the community more involved with each other somehow. I don't really know any "perfect" way to become more popular other than a stellar community and trying to add a reason to keep playing after you have "won*" minecraft. How we manage to do these two tasks I am not sure and would love to hear more from other members on what they think. Especially our more casual players, and players that frequent other servers as well. That might give us some more insight on the issues. Time to start bugging my friends to look at this topic and add to it.

*term used by another poster(too lazy to look and see who it was) to denote a player that has pretty much all the supplies they could want, personal grinders, and end game gear(diamond enchanted type stuff)
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by TessieWessie » 07 Jul 2013, 15:41

Finish all the proposed projects, and I think that the more people play the more others will. Cause I think Escapecraft is best for it's community.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by Tulonsae » 07 Jul 2013, 16:06

@Sgtwisky

So, let me make sure I understand. You want to make it so that creeper explosions are not turned off in cubiods?

Except maybe for specific server-only builds (like the spawn)?
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by sgtwisky » 07 Jul 2013, 23:22

@Tulonsae

EDIT: OH didn't know items would unload. never mind about getting rid of the death chests then. it is s sound decision to keep them.

yes. This being said I just realized that it would be possible to use creepers to grief players plots... SO... it should be allowed to be on just because of that fact alone. In a perfect world without asshats I do think this idea has merit.

The reason why I agreed with random on this is it fits with the following ideas I have gotten from the 1.6 temp server.

1. I think that due to certain plugins, creeper protection and amassing huge amounts of resources that late game playing becomes boring. death means little to nothing so there is no risk vs reward and building ends up feeling more like "work" than it did when you were surviving and trying to cut a corner out for your self in the wilderness.

2. I think that when a player has too much stuff that they work together less and thus don't form as many new connections with new and old players.

3. This I feel is more a minecraft issue than a server issue. But any server that is to be successful for a long period without having lots of wipes needs to overcome this IMHO.

@everyone:


rant incoming you can skip if you wish. it is mainly restating other info I have posted while trying to explain it a bit better.

my suggestions I have made so far in this thread have kept this in mind. as when playing in 1.6 these are the main changes and its become much more engaging than playing on the main server where its almost like creative without flying. I know many players that are at that point in the game. motor, invun, myself and by extension my sister arizons, trovo22 modocam, magacalpander. Most of what I have suggested is to give challenge or more to do with the amassed wealth. in doing that I believe that the 2 biggest issues with our popularity would be solved. This is because when a player has everything and gets board... of course they would go somewhere else or wait till the next content update from mojang or to check out the newest world. I don't think that lack of new worlds and land is the fix for why our popularity is declining though it cant hurt.

I am not saying that I am right on what is holding us back from success or that my solutions are anywhere close to solid. They are just what I have been able to think of.
end rant

Questions to help continue constructive discussion
that being said what do you guys think about my interpretation of the problem? Do you think there is anything else that could be turning players away? Maybe something we are doing/not doing that players desperately want? are my suggestions too hard for newer players? Is there anything else I can do to give/learn more about what makes a successful MC server and add to this discussion?
/close questions

Some more suggestions that came to mind
Maybe we could make some more promo videos for the server. I can donate my time to doing it if we want some and no one better wants to take it up.

we should advertise a bit more. I found this place through the escapest but last time I saw the thread in the forum it was old and very very outdated.

Maybe we simply need to wipe more often? could use the same world maybe but remove structures and player inventory? sorta like saving the initial map and then restoring it latter. that would solve the issues I posted above.

Maybe we could make perks purchasable with diamond, iron, gold, and other materials? as long as it was a high expense it would also help with what I see as some issues. BUT this might deduct from the server income from the shop which I don't like. I am sure it costs quite a bit to keep the lights on. but if the item costs were high enough maybe it would balance out?
End extra suggestions




why I'm so active in this topic
I know I've been pretty long winded on this topic and again might not be going in the right direction to help (as I've never run a server or know what the mass's like/want) but to me this topic is important as escapecraft was my first online minecraft home, and will likely be until the eventual day when everyone moves on(weather from the server or the game itself) so I want to help as much as possible, even if it is long winded lol.

OK will try to make my future posts much, much smaller and avoid assaulting everyone with my walls of text.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by motormaniac » 08 Jul 2013, 01:22

sgtwisky wrote:*MULTIPLE QUOTES*

Preeetty much what he's been saying. Plugins cut to minimum(keeping cuboids, deathchests, other critical plugins)Cuboids should be kept, not be free. Wipe. Wipe items. Wipe errethang. Completely start from scratch. Involve players more in building of infrastructure. We HAVE the income of new players. We need to keep them is the problem. (I still think a new tutorial is in order.)
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by random980 » 08 Jul 2013, 01:26

motormaniac wrote:
sgtwisky wrote:*MULTIPLE QUOTES*

Preeetty much what he's been saying. Plugins cut to minimum(keeping cuboids, deathchests, other critical plugins)Cuboids should be kept, not be free. Wipe. Wipe items. Wipe errethang. Completely start from scratch. Involve players more in building of infrastructure. We HAVE the income of new players. We need to keep them is the problem. (I still think a new tutorial is in order.)
Pretty much what i've been saying to. Seems like most people are on agreement with this.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by RobipodSupreme » 08 Jul 2013, 01:51

sgtwisky wrote: I know many players that are at that point in the game. motor, invun, myself and by extension my sister arizons, trovo22 modocam, magacalpander. Most of what I have suggested is to give challenge or more to do with the amassed wealth.
O.o

But yes, I agree with a lot of sgt's points.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by Tulonsae » 08 Jul 2013, 02:16

Ok, so one of the plugins I've been looking at for awhile to replace our current cuboids with is called Grief Prevention.

This allows for quite a lot of nice protection from griefing, has a lot of options, and let's us more easily give "free" claims to players while still keeping it a bit of a challenge. For example, you can only claim so many blocks, and you have to spend time on the server to earn more blocks that you can claim.

Another nice default of Grief Prevention is that it allows you to keep creeper explosions from destroying blocks on the surface (still affects players), but explosions still destroy blocks (and cause damage) under the surface even on claims. This helps to keep your claim attractive and yet you still get to worry....

There are other possibilities as well.

Thanks to all of you for your input, and please continue to post things as you think of them.

It may not seem like much is happening, but I am discussing these things with staff. We're holding off on decisions and such until after we get the server upgraded to 1.6.x.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by haxxorzd00d » 08 Jul 2013, 04:00

On the topic of creeper/grief protection, the major reason I dislike creeper environment damage (and have in past lobbied for its removal) is not so much that creepers will attack me and destroy my stuff, but that they go after OTHER PEOPLE who are checking out my stuff, and get it blown up.

(Note: I'm only talking about environment damage; I'm happy for creeper explosions to still kill you.)

I've had my house on the 1.6 temp server creepered at least 3 times - never by me, always by random visitors who accidentally set them off. Just the same, I've accidentally caused a few craters while wandering the temp village, most of which I tried my best to clean up. Sadly, a "perfect world" in which we all repair each others' creeper damage doesn't exist. A lot of players are more than happy to "hit and run", which in essence is no better than griefing. Logging in and finding holes in your house which happened while you weren't even there can be very disheartening.

My only other concern with environment damage is simply that a lot of it happens in the wilderness, turning our attractive landscapes into pockmarked wastelands (if I survive these, I usually try and repair them, often with a layer of cobblestone under the surface to try and mitigate future damage). And of course, I've lost count of the times I've spotted creeper-holes in roads, not necessarily the result of poor lighting in an area but simply bad luck.

Do I think creeper explosions are a good feature of Minecraft? Yeah, they add a lot of risk. Would it detract from survival if we removed them? Not as much as you might think; it's usually the player-killing explosions that cause most trouble in survival, and they wouldn't be removed.

Do I think creeper explosions are a good feature of multiplayer? YES, IF you're playing in a closed group of friends who all agree to be careful and clean up their mess. On a global server with random strangers who are more than likely to flee the scene instead of fixing their mess? Not so much.

EDIT: Yes, our current cuboid setup protects property from creeper damage, but if we're gonna protect some arbitrarily selected regions (even more so now that cuboids are free), we might as well switch off creeper-booms for the whole world.

EDIT 2! See Sti's post below. "/gamerule mobGriefing false" is part of vanilla Minecraft now and does exactly this.

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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by TEKNOVIRUS » 08 Jul 2013, 05:14

Well maybe creeper protection for donators...? I think this might be wrong place for this...
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by motormaniac » 08 Jul 2013, 11:36

Tulonsae wrote:Ok, so one of the plugins I've been looking at for awhile to replace our current cuboids with is called Grief Prevention. This allows for quite a lot of nice protection from griefing, has a lot of options, and let's us more easily give "free" claims to players while still keeping it a bit of a challenge. For example, you can only claim so many blocks, and you have to spend time on the server to earn more blocks that you can claim.
Eh, I think the way of getting cuboids for Borjan and earlier was good. 2 Diamond blocks/10 Gold blocks gave you something to work towards and was quite satisfying once you got it.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by Sti_Jo_Lew » 08 Jul 2013, 11:47

How would people feel about just turning off the in-game rule "mob-greifing". That way people can still be brutally murdered by creepers if they're not careful, but we don't have the issue of the damage it causes to blocks.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by SMWasder » 08 Jul 2013, 12:46

motormaniac wrote:
Tulonsae wrote:Ok, so one of the plugins I've been looking at for awhile to replace our current cuboids with is called Grief Prevention. This allows for quite a lot of nice protection from griefing, has a lot of options, and let's us more easily give "free" claims to players while still keeping it a bit of a challenge. For example, you can only claim so many blocks, and you have to spend time on the server to earn more blocks that you can claim.
Eh, I think the way of getting cuboids for Borjan and earlier was good. 2 Diamond blocks/10 Gold blocks gave you something to work towards and was quite satisfying once you got it.
One of the things I liked about that system was that it made gold a bit less worthless.

Something I've heard people say about cuboids is that they don't like bothering us with them (they really shouldn't worry though, it's not like we're massively busy a lot of the time), so I suppose people would appreciate a system that didn't require us to turn up, collect payment and set it up for them.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by motormaniac » 08 Jul 2013, 12:57

SMWasder wrote:
One of the things I liked about that system was that it made gold a bit less worthless.

Something I've heard people say about cuboids is that they don't like bothering us with them (they really shouldn't worry though, it's not like we're massively busy a lot of the time), so I suppose people would appreciate a system that didn't require us to turn up, collect payment and set it up for them.
While it does take a bit more manual effort, that's what tickets are for. We don't really emphasize tickets much anymore though they did help mods keep track of who needs what. It also just let them get to it when they weren't busy.
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sgtwisky
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by sgtwisky » 08 Jul 2013, 13:16

Sti_Jo_Lew wrote:How would people feel about just turning off the in-game rule "mob-greifing". That way people can still be brutally murdered by creepers if they're not careful, but we don't have the issue of the damage it causes to blocks.

I think with the way most players play this may be the best compromise of features. +1 to Sti !
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random980
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by random980 » 09 Jul 2013, 02:17

sgtwisky wrote:
Sti_Jo_Lew wrote:How would people feel about just turning off the in-game rule "mob-greifing". That way people can still be brutally murdered by creepers if they're not careful, but we don't have the issue of the damage it causes to blocks.

I think with the way most players play this may be the best compromise of features. +1 to Sti !
+2 sti,
also the Grief Prevention plugin sounds great! If we move to this i would fully support it.
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by Tulonsae » 09 Jul 2013, 13:20

motormaniac wrote:
Tulonsae wrote:Ok, so one of the plugins I've been looking at for awhile to replace our current cuboids with is called Grief Prevention. This allows for quite a lot of nice protection from griefing, has a lot of options, and let's us more easily give "free" claims to players while still keeping it a bit of a challenge. For example, you can only claim so many blocks, and you have to spend time on the server to earn more blocks that you can claim.
Eh, I think the way of getting cuboids for Borjan and earlier was good. 2 Diamond blocks/10 Gold blocks gave you something to work towards and was quite satisfying once you got it.
I realize that many of the regulars like this (and many of the mods), but we need to be able to protect all the players from griefing, not just the ones who like mining and challenges to acquire 18 diamonds or 90 gold.

But if you want challenges to work for, I'd be happy to think up other stuff.... :twisted:
--Tulonsae

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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by motormaniac » 09 Jul 2013, 13:29

I still think it's a good idea provided we keep the free first cuboid for vets. As SMW said, it actually puts value in gold. :)
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Re: How can we be successful/popular?

Post by Invunarble » 09 Jul 2013, 16:14

You see, the thing I'm not avid about with creeper explosions being removed is that even though they still do damage, there's far less thrill and panic when they pose less of a threat when you play. If my memory recalls correctly, I think the main server is set so creeper explosions still cause health damage. Creepers really never have been a threat during my time playing legitimately on the main server, as they essentially just turn into a less efficient zombie that you can pick away with a few swings of your sword.

So, the health damage creepers cause alone doesn't really pose much of a threat - a creeper exploding one block away from you doesn't seem to cause much damage, even less with wearing simple iron armor. With this said, I don't think during my time on temp I've run away like a little girl from creepers due to the sole fact they can do a bit of damage to my health, but instead because they'll leave an ugly hole behind if I stay too close to them.

Of course, I still agree about making public spots such as spawn areas invincible to creeper explosions. Places like these still serve both as a safe haven, and of a large amount of importance to be damaged by creepers. Not only this, but you don't frequently "adventure" around in a hub area looking for diamonds and other shiny things, do you?

But for me, flatly disabling creeper explosions universally on whichever survival server you are playing on just seems like it'll cut off a large chunk of the excitement of playing Minecraft. Sure, fixing those creeper holes that dot the landscape or that appear in your house are a pain, but is it really worth it flatly denying any explosions at all because of this?
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